Official Stance on Evocati Posts

Mar 8, 2016
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AstroSam
#42
Just think i put in to test it thats why i put money into it..Not to sit on the side lines like a after effect piece of desert like my wife uses me for..Pledged for this pledged to test the game..Not to test some thing yall are testing an the rest of us should..Sorry ill stop now my two takes into it..Its not a popular thing im standing for..How ever i have every right to fight this..
Nothing to fight for. Things are as they meant to be. You pledged for the game, not to be a tester. Nevertheless, CIG let all us backers be testers by using the miniPU. You want to have more? Then you have to give more. And that is not only money, its the best you have: time. Play 8 hours a day, report bugs - which is not only open new tickets but also contribute plus to deliver quality content - for becoming a core part of the SC gaming community. Then you will announced an evocati. Problem solved for you.

Looking to myself, this would be too much invest for me. I want to play when I'm having the time for it - but I also want to keep away when I have RL stuff to do. Thus I've chosen the middle way. I'm playing probably a hundred hours per release, report the bugs (since 02/2016 around 130; 10 own tickets), plus giving 10 bucks a month as a subscriber. Result: being invited to PTU. I'm fine with that. No need to take over such a responsibility by becoming an avocado ;)
 
Mar 8, 2016
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AstroSam
#44
Which depends on ones point of view. There are for sure things which CIG could do better. But looking to their release policy, they are doing it the correct way. As I said: there is a way to become an evocatus. You only have to invest your time. Thus there is no reason to complain. No one's saying that you can't do it.
And without this pre-test testing system we probably wouldn't have alpha 2.5 right now because the analysis and fixing of bugs would be much more complicated.
 
Likes: Talonsbane

sum1

Grand Admiral
Jun 26, 2015
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sum1
#46
As more and more Evocati information/leaks come out, the TEST Staff would like to remind everyone that this material is NDA bound and therefore not appropriate to post on the forums.

It may still exist on other sites, but out of respect for CIG's intentions we will no longer allow posting of such on the TEST forums.

<3 TEST Staff
Illuminati confirmed.
 
Jul 6, 2014
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Salt_Lake
#50
I also think, that Evocati is usefull.
The Evocati members are almost like professional Beta-Testers, activly looking for Bugs and exploits.
And more important, trying to reproduce them and report them.
The Evocati group is only a little Part of the SC-Comunity, but the Majority of Bug-reports and contributions on the Issue Tracker comes from members of this group.

The Devs also continue to say how much it helps them to have a group as responsiv and engaget as the Evocati group.
Also due to the smaller Number of Testers it's easier and therfore more likely for CIG to publish Patches, that only change some little Parts.
(The more People download a new Patch, the more stress is on the Server)

PS: After talking to an Evocati-Tester in private, i can also say: I'm very happy, that I'm not part of this group, that i don't have to play with these unstable Evocati-builds.
Also I'm not the type of guys, who jumps against everything trying to clip into objects... just for the sake of filling a bugreport. (I'm more the guy who trys to reproduce the actual discovery...)

PPS: The only thing I am is curius.
I like to know what is new on Evocati or what has been changed.
So I can do an educated guess, what may be published to live in the near future.
..and what of those who signed up and supported CIG specifically to do beta testing? Fuck them, because they didnt get the Evocati pass? Fuck them, because they couldn't keep up with some people who are unemployed or dont have kids/outside reponsibilities?

Beta testing is what I wanted to do. I loved playing and finding bugs. Ever since Evocati has come out, my play time has dropped to null. Every bug report I sent in had a response of "This bug has been reported pre-release of patch." Now there is a whole forum thing you have to do. Limiting factor was time, with only 2 hours a day to play right now.
 
Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#51
..and what of those who signed up and supported CIG specifically to do beta testing? Fuck them, because they didnt get the Evocati pass? Fuck them, because they couldn't keep up with some people who are unemployed or dont have kids/outside reponsibilities?

Beta testing is what I wanted to do. I loved playing and finding bugs. Ever since Evocati has come out, my play time has dropped to null. Every bug report I sent in had a response of "This bug has been reported pre-release of patch." Now there is a whole forum thing you have to do. Limiting factor was time, with only 2 hours a day to play right now.
You still get to do the Beta test. The Evo do the alpha test.

I understand your frustration, however actual games testing isn't having fun and finding bugs along the way, Its painstakingly going down the same corridor 5 times trying to clip through the wall... then doing it again but crouching... then doing it again only crawling... then doing the above 15 tests strafing instead of walking forwards. Then doing the same 15 tests again strafing in the other direction. then doing the same 15 tests walking backwards.

And then
doing it all over again but with a pistol drawn. And then again with the sniper rifle drawn.

And then all of the above, jumping at the same time.

I once talked to a guy who worked on the QA testing for GTA5. He said he was given a tiny section of a part of a level had to do literally everything it was possible to do in the game with every single weapon in his characters had each time, then in every single car. It took months playing the same level section over and over and over. Unsurprisingly he did not play the game when it came out as he did not want to go through that same patch of level and see something he had missed when testing.

I have no idea, but i would be very surprised if the Evos did not get a script of tests they had to perform by day X or delay the release even further...

Keep doing your Beta testing, you never know what has been picked up. The forum system is so you can check if it has been detected already - there are 1 million backers, thats lot of eyes and combined hours of play time. come the end of 2.5, there will be few to find. At the beginning of 2.6, they will be coming out of the woodwork. Play the game. Check the forum thing. Report your bugs :slight_smile:
 
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Jul 6, 2014
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Salt_Lake
#52
You still get to do the Beta test. The Evo do the alpha test.

I understand your frustration, however actual games testing isn't having fun and finding bugs along the way, Its painstakingly going down the same corridor 5 times trying to clip through the wall... then doing it again but crouching... then doing it again only crawling... then doing the above 15 tests strafing instead of walking forwards. Then doing the same 15 tests again strafing in the other direction. then doing the same 15 tests walking backwards.

And then
doing it all over again but with a pistol drawn. And then again with the sniper rifle drawn.

And then all of the above, jumping at the same time.

I once talked to a guy who worked on the QA testing for GTA5. He said he was given a tiny section of a part of a level had to do literally everything it was possible to do in the game with every single weapon in his characters had each time, then in every single car. It took months playing the same level section over and over and over. Unsurprisingly he did not play the game when it came out as he did not want to go through that same patch of level and see something he had missed when testing.

I have no idea, but i would be very surprised if the Evos did not get a script of tests they had to perform by day X or delay the release even further...

Keep doing your Beta testing, you never know what has been picked up. The forum system is so you can check if it has been detected already - there are 1 million backers, thats lot of eyes and combined hours of play time. come the end of 2.5, there will be few to find. At the beginning of 2.6, they will be coming out of the woodwork. Play the game. Check the forum thing. Report your bugs :slight_smile:
Either way the pledge is for both Alpha and Beta, and Evocati is getting Beta patches not Alpha patches. SC is out of Alpha.

Again I do like this stuff. Do you know how many times I went up and down the hornets ladder to find out that it was messing the sound file for 1 foot step, only if you got in to the passanger seat after getting out of the pilot seat. This is stuff I like to do, it is stuff I love to do. Do you know how many times I have practiced applying a israli combat bandage? thousands of time, hell I sat around and did it in my boredom when I was a SrA. Muscle memory and attention to detail are something I like.

I doubt I will ever be picked up for Evocati, tired of ever test being either already reported or been noted down prior to us getting it. I just pulled back my money, promises were broken.
 

Varku

Grand Admiral
Apr 21, 2016
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Varku
#53
..and what of those who signed up and supported CIG specifically to do beta testing? Fuck them, because they didnt get the Evocati pass? Fuck them, because they couldn't keep up with some people who are unemployed or dont have kids/outside reponsibilities?

Beta testing is what I wanted to do. I loved playing and finding bugs. Ever since Evocati has come out, my play time has dropped to null. Every bug report I sent in had a response of "This bug has been reported pre-release of patch." Now there is a whole forum thing you have to do. Limiting factor was time, with only 2 hours a day to play right now.
in addition to what was sayed aboveby @NaffNaffBobFace , i like to explain the purpose of that Forum thingy.

The Issue tracker is a ticket system, which was build to increase the quality of bugreports and reduce the number of duplicate reports.
It's much more time saving to have 1 Bugreport, that is confirmed by 100 others, than to have to read 100 single bugreports and identifying 99 of them as duplicate of the first one.
also it helps to coordinate the testing by getting Testers to try to reproduce some reported bugs, and confirm that the reproducing steps work.
So when a dev finaly takes a look at that bug, he can be shure the reproduction of that bug actualy works, and he isn't wasting his time on a incomplete or false report.
Without the use of such a System alot of bugs won't get the attention they deserve, and may even stay unnoticed at all.
So please, keep looking for bugs, but before you report them, check if someone else has already reported it.
There is no benefit in creating multiple bugreports for the same bug.
Or if you want to streamline your bugreporting duty, check the issue tracker for Bugreports with a need for additional information or have less than 10 confirmations.
 
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Varku

Grand Admiral
Apr 21, 2016
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Varku
#54
Either way the pledge is for both Alpha and Beta, and Evocati is getting Beta patches not Alpha patches. SC is out of Alpha.
That is not true, we're still in Alpha.
As SC is not feature complete jet, which is part of the definition of an alpha Test.
Also, when you buy a new thing in the Shop you still need to acknowledge, that SC is in alpha.
You can still use CCU which is onl allowed until SC enters the Beta stage.
Unless CIG officialy says that we're in Beta (maybe early 2018) we're still in alpha
 
Jun 5, 2016
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Thalstan
#55
Varku is correct, we are still in alpha.

Evocati get early releases of the Alpha build. Those that go to the test server in wave 1, 2, etc, are testing after them. One of the things to note is that different rules apply to the test server. If someone asks to be left alone because they are trying to test a specific bug, you need to leave them alone. Otherwise, you risk being removed from the test server environment. This is because it can sometimes take very specific circumstances or have some setup time to expose the bug..nothing like spending 20 minutes setting up conditions and have someone come kill your toon as you are about to take that critical step.

Now, all that said...once the test waves are done and the build is pushed to the PU, it's still alpha. You can still spend hours looking at a specific bug, report issues via the issue council, review other bugs, etc. In fact, that's really what access is about. Not making credits (which will be wiped), building an empire, etc. Play the game, find the bugs, give feedback. Even feedback like like ship combat speeds are (high, low, right where they should be), Repeaters are (too powerful, to weak, right on target), Missiles need (buffing, nerfing, improvements to their AI, etc). Everything the Evotati does and the test universe people to, you can do. The ONLY thing you miss out on are the daily 25 gig downloads of new builds, the every other day reset of your control customization because they changed something just slightly and your old build doesn't work anymore, and the crashes that occur every 5-10 minutes with no warning...and now chasing that crash scenario and repeating, or you might just be logging into your hangar and placing some shelves...then loading in a DUR and see it flip over because the plants you put in your balcony are now appearing in the middle of your hangar...

Alpha will probably last until release 4.0 at least, if not release 5.0. That gives us another year as they add in features to test. Once it's feature complete, I then expect the game to go beta....and for all those that say it's been years...remember that some games take more than a decade...just look at Diablo III.
 
Jul 6, 2014
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Salt_Lake
#56
That is not true, we're still in Alpha.
As SC is not feature complete jet, which is part of the definition of an alpha Test.
Also, when you buy a new thing in the Shop you still need to acknowledge, that SC is in alpha.
You can still use CCU which is onl allowed until SC enters the Beta stage.
Unless CIG officialy says that we're in Beta (maybe early 2018) we're still in alpha
Either way alpha or beta the point stands. it was promised in the package to have access to all alpha and beta.

I am knocking the ticket system. the issue is unless you are the first to report it, it is rare for them to invite you to evocati. otherwise people would just spam "oh infound this problem too" without checking. Unfortunately since I cant spend all day on SC like some people I will never get the chance to find a new issue. I can recommend and +1 all the big reports but that doesnt get you into evocati.

People keep saying "oh you dona want to do that, it crashes/boring/etc etc." Some people like that, they really like that, and want to participate in that.
 
Mar 8, 2016
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AstroSam
#57
If all people would have access to the current state of development, CIG wouldn't be able to erase the bugs for having a playable alpha.
If they wouldn't have the support of the Evocati, the bug hunt would take MUCH longer and we probably would have 2.6 in April next year; OR CIG would have to hire more people and thus burn even faster their money.

Hence I'm seeing no point to complain about this invention of "evocati alpha testing".
 
Apr 8, 2016
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Floating_Cloud
#58
Either way alpha or beta the point stands. it was promised in the package to have access to all alpha and beta.
You have to understand Salt that is is just not practical to release ultra buggy versions to everyone. Most people love to find and report a bug, but if forced to spend a couple of weeks playing through a version which crashes to desktop, warps them out of their ships, or has other early release 'features' then that would reduce their enjoyment significantly. That's what the Evocati have to put up with, but if inflicted on the general user-base I could see it resulting in people just losing interest completely. There is also the cost factor to RSI. Pushing big multi-GB updates on a daily basis to hundreds of players is one thing, but to tens of thousands would be a lot of money taken away from the development pool.

Now if you want to be one of those hard-core Evocati then that's a different matter. Have you considered putting together an email to support, stating your interest, your attention to detail, and your desire to support the game through thorough testing of the pre-PTU releases? If you do give that a go then I would strongly recommend focussing on the positives (experience, commitment, etc). Don't be negative, as I don't think that would help your case.

If you do give that a try then best of luck, but if not, or if the email doesn't succeed then you can still contribute in the normal PTU. These still have a lot of bugs, and even with limited playtime a committed tester can make a real contribution.
 

supitza

Vault Dweller
Aug 5, 2015
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AstroSupitza
#59
You have to understand Salt that is is just not practical to release ultra buggy versions to everyone. Most people love to find and report a bug, but if forced to spend a couple of weeks playing through a version which crashes to desktop, warps them out of their ships, or has other early release 'features' then that would reduce their enjoyment significantly. That's what the Evocati have to put up with, but if inflicted on the general user-base I could see it resulting in people just losing interest completely. There is also the cost factor to RSI. Pushing big multi-GB updates on a daily basis to hundreds of players is one thing, but to tens of thousands would be a lot of money taken away from the development pool.

Now if you want to be one of those hard-core Evocati then that's a different matter. Have you considered putting together an email to support, stating your interest, your attention to detail, and your desire to support the game through thorough testing of the pre-PTU releases? If you do give that a go then I would strongly recommend focussing on the positives (experience, commitment, etc). Don't be negative, as I don't think that would help your case.

If you do give that a try then best of luck, but if not, or if the email doesn't succeed then you can still contribute in the normal PTU. These still have a lot of bugs, and even with limited playtime a committed tester can make a real contribution.
Beautifully put. I envy the Evocati for being the first to see all the new content we're all craving for, but I also respect (and dread) their hard work and the long hours they put in.
 
Jan 5, 2016
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NaffNaffBobFace
#60
You still get to do the Beta test. The Evo do the alpha test.
Apologies, the above was incorrect and misleading. The Evo do tests in the Test Platform of the Alpha made up until this point.

I suppose my wording was trying to say "they do the alpha test of the alpha build and you get to Beta that build" but even that is wrong because the PTU is a test platform of 2.6, it is not actually 2.6.

They could have features in the PTU which are created and become redundant long before we even get to play them in the alpha - imagine if we got the first alpha build at 2.5, we would never have known the Holotable existed as it was made redundant by the new hangar and the Mobiglass...